Langrisser 1 & 2 Remake

[Niahak]

I'll try not to make this a total gripefest. These are probably decent enough games without the context. And I guess I'd rather someone play these remakes than not play any Langrisser games at all?

These came out a few years ago on several platforms, I just picked up the Switch version a while back when it was on sale. Tried the demo for a bit and it seemed promising. These are disappointing compared to what could've been. Should've just plugged in my Genesis, but I don't have a Nomad for the portability.

Good: Skills system potentially adds some build variety.
Good: New unit types, leader types and some cross-leader type availability is interesting (e.g. tiers of horsemen only available to straight cavalry generals, or harpies available to some non-flyer leaders).
Bad: Difficulty is just not there at all
Bad: Battle scenes are just sad, two sides swiping at clouds and no feedback about why things happened
Bad: Story scenes straight up don't play between scenarios in Classic portrait mode

Worst offender difficulty wise is the slime level (scenario 4). In Warsong, this was an 11-turn survival mission and a nail-biter even if you had promoted Ledin, because Narm is a fresh fighter and Volkoff only gives defense bonuses so he's only useful as a buffer (even if you wanted him to attack). In the remake, all the nearby slimes had killed themselves attacking me on turn 4, when the reinforcements show up and immediately murder the remainder. I'm not sure you can make it to turn 11 even running from the enemy.

Anyway, so far I've played to scenario 12 and I'm not sure I'll even pick it up again. The story branches seem like they could be interesting, but the game just doesn't run fast enough to justify replaying scenarios and I can only imagine what weirdness they shoehorned into Langrisser 1. For Langrisser 2... eh, the engine rework probably fits a little better, but I'm guessing the difficulty issues persist.

I think my disappointment is largely because Warsong did such a great job with the difficulty given the constraints. The combat is fun to watch and it's clear why/how things happen. Also fun things like soldiers throwing weapons at each other over battlements that are sadly gone.

I've heard the mobile game is good, but I have an irrational dislike for turning my phone sideways.

[Sharecrow]

I just recently bought this on sale. I haven’t gotten to it yet - saddened to hear about the fumbles. When I get to it, I’ll try to enjoy it despite those. I played the heck out of Warsong when it was contemporary. Don’t really have access now, though, so I went with these.

[Niahak]

Totally understand not having access to Warsong! I hope you are able to enjoy the remake. For what it's worth, I've still enjoyed my experience with it despite these issues.

I was surprised Warsong was included in the Genesis/Megadrive 2 mini - I figured the licensing situation was too weird (and the game too obscure). That would still be an option to play the original, if you can find one.

There's something to be said for the more interesting classing/itemization in this version - if the game were just a bit harder, it could be great (in Warsong you just had the one item per character you could equip, and two options at each promotion for two promotions IIRC). I'm sure Independent Path in L2 is still a bit troublesome, but that's more about how magic works than anything.

[Kong Wen]

I'll try not to make this a total gripefest. These are probably decent enough games without the context. And I guess I'd rather someone play these remakes than not play any Langrisser games at all?

Anyway, so far I've played to scenario 12 and I'm not sure I'll even pick it up again. The story branches seem like they could be interesting, but the game just doesn't run fast enough to justify replaying scenarios and I can only imagine what weirdness they shoehorned into Langrisser 1. For Langrisser 2... eh, the engine rework probably fits a little better, but I'm guessing the difficulty issues persist.

I've heard the mobile game is good, but I have an irrational dislike for turning my phone sideways.

I agree with you. I was pretty disappointed in these too, although my hopes/expectations for them were very tempered. Cynically, all I really wanted out of them was 1) an official, legal way to play Langrisser 2, and 2) maybe the hope that they could sell well enough to justify a localization of Langrisser 3 at some point in some form.

Anyway, they're easy enough that the big slow battles are boring instead of tense and strategically gripping, and the art is bad. Not just the portraits, but all the tile assets and everything. It all looks like a run of the mill cheap RPG maker cash-in.

I will say, the branching plot lines they added to Warsong only made me angry lol—they basically just took all the lonely king Elwin stuff from Lang 2 and made it happen to Ledin. More or less.

I've said it a few times, the mobile game is a gacha, which is a predatory and immoral system, but it also stands surprisingly well on its own as a content-rich tactical game even if you completely ignore the gacha altogether and play without spending a dime. There's a lot to do, everything is available and viable without engaging with the gacha, and there's an official PC client if you don't want to play on your phone/tablet.

[Niahak]

I've actually warmed back up to this a bit after a break.
I managed to hit a low point in the battle with Emperor Digos (probably got his name wrong), because it's a particularly slow-running map where all your generals are deployed and has lots of magic users.
Most subsequent maps have deployments of 6 generals so far, with only a couple involving more. That keeps the scale more reasonable, and you can pick which of the 4 generics (Carleon, Bayard, Lance ([oddly] and Thorne, using the Warsong names because I can never remember Bayard's "real" one) to use. Some of the fights are a little tougher although most enemies are still ridiculously easy as long as they don't cast magic. Fights are running between 20 and 40 minutes, which is a little more brisk.

Honestly most of my disappointments from this version stem from the PC remake of 1 that I played ages ago. I have a feeling they kept many of the assets from that (voices, dialogue, and unit types, though not graphics), because I remember the same dragon fight where I didn't need to summon the Efreet at all.

It's interesting that Mina/Chris and Calais/Jessica are both pushed towards a Priest-ish route based on their hidden class. That said priests in these games are almost identical to mages although they get slightly better units and slightly less offensive magic.

While the gacha sounds interesting, I've been "clean" for a month after years of FFBE and SaGa ReUniverse, so I'd like to keep that streak up a little longer. Jumping into a gacha a few years after release sounds like an ordeal (just coming back after a break is tough enough).

[Kong Wen]

Honestly most of my disappointments from this version stem from the PC remake of 1 that I played ages ago. I have a feeling they kept many of the assets from that (voices, dialogue, and unit types, though not graphics), because I remember the same dragon fight where I didn't need to summon the Efreet at all.

Ugh, that's one of the more exciting set-piece battles from the original, too. The one with all the squid monster reinforcements that show up when you get into the water is fun in the original as well, and I remember that being a nothing fight in the remake.

Let me know when you get into some of the weird Lang 1 optional story side-branches with the completely invented new character (well, new in the earlier remake, which I still consider new) Betty.

While the gacha sounds interesting, I've been "clean" for a month after years of FFBE and SaGa ReUniverse, so I'd like to keep that streak up a little longer. Jumping into a gacha a few years after release sounds like an ordeal (just coming back after a break is tough enough).

Yeah I can understand this for sure. Although I will reiterate (not just to pester you, but for everyone ) that I think playing this completely free-to-play and just engaging with the story and adjacent PvE modes as if they're a normal console strategy game is 100% the way to go. So if you're not concerned about "catching up" with the PvP whales, the benefit of joining late is you get all the modern QoL features without the growing pains.

I actually have a freebies-only account that not only doesn't spend money, but literally doesn't summon on the gacha at all, so it only uses the characters that the game gives you from the storyline lol:

[Niahak]

I returned to this remake during the winter break and will probably stick with it for a few more days at least.

I managed to complete Langrisser 1 (happy-path) which was surprisingly a bit tricky due to massive Meteor spam in the later stages. Most commanders are ill-equipped to protect their troops from magic, so the Thorne+co cohort had a rough time though Tyler did surprisingly okay. I'm a little disappointed they reclassed my Narm when she became an ally, though - she was a superstar as a Ranger and it shouldn't be hard to at least fake some of that stuff.

Starting Langrisser 2 I was again surprised at how poorly the original scenarios were converted (or perhaps how poor the new AI is). In the starting scenario, the early defending Lord character was happy to attack cavalry that dropped half his HP - alone on a bridge, with all his spearmen back out of the way. I don't think his spearmen even saw any combat. In Der Langrisser, I remember there being the threat of Leon and Laird attacking you, but it never manifested in ~4 plays of the scenario because the same character stayed back and surrounded himself with spearmen - putting up a brave defense, but ultimately the commander gets exposed and defeated by cavalry. In this version the Blue Dragon Buddies attacked me both times I tried the map (I restarted because I forgot to move a soldier up to a bonus panel), because the lord + priestess who are supposed to distract them almost immediately die due to poor AI.

I know I've beaten on that drum a few times, but I have strong memories of this stuff because Warsong + Der Langrisser were some of the first games where I saw a rock-paper-scissors system used effectively by AI (backing up what characters actually said), and it's sad to see the remake throw so much of that away.

I can see why Lang2 offers an "easy start" option since Elwin + Hein are a little squishy to take on Leon + Laird. As it was, since I navigated back to the main menu when I restarted I kept the XP + levels I already had so I managed to scrape by (and promote in the 2nd scenario after another restart).

Still enjoying myself, for all my complaints the story is still pretty good (though what IS that outfit, Cherie? at least Liana has the excuse of not being on the front lines) and the core commander-and-soldiers mechanics are still there. In Lang2 the difficulty seems more balanced because the allies are so I need to do it all myself and that's a little tougher. Music is good too, although the classic option seems like a weird mix of SNES and something more modern.

I think I should've let Morgan go on the temple assault though, I think I remember that being required for Imperial path.