This Old Neon Forum

Kong Wen wrote:Quick question, since I haven't booted this up yet: is there an option to make a level auto-scroll?

Yep. Three speed options, too.

The Shoemaker wrote: Alright I tried Clay's stage, I beat it on the easiest route :p I tried the hardest route a few times (unknowingly) and almost made it through, so many unsuspecting thwomps!

I also tried your Falcon and your first level. They were tough (lots of devilishly placed piranha plants) But I was able to beat them.

I also reached 50 stars today, which means I can upload 20 levels now. We'll see how long it takes me to get to 10 :p

Awesome! Glad you were able to beat the Falcon stage! There's a lot about it that I don't like in hindsight, but I enjoyed making it so much that I'm glad a few of my friends have at least gotten through it. I think I'm gonna try to make a better Falcon stage sometime in the future.

Be sure to give the hardest route of my other level another try some time if you care to! That was (obviously) the part I spent the most time on.

Oh, and excellent news about the 50 stars. That's no small feat. I assume a lot of that is from your Bullet Bill stage (which I'd forgotten I had played). That was is really great. Looked like you put a lot of work into it, and it paid off. Congrats on the milestone!

I have mixed feelings when it comes to Mario Maker. It's like the levels are either gimmick levels that are more fun creating than playing, or they're OK classic Mario style levels that are fine enough playing, but lack any greater value as standalone experiences compared to a full mario game with proper progression.

Nonetheless.. Making levels is fun.

I wish there were features to have 2 people playing local. One could work on creating a level on the game-pad, while the other could play-test it on the screen (not sure if the Wii U could handle two different things in real time though..) You can then revise on the gamepad as you see what your friend does, and then "push" the new version to the big screen.

My girlfriend has not played 2D style mario before, and it comes apparent that this game is only for veteran Mario players. She's not having fun since all levels she finds are waaay over her skill level.

Nintendo should have been a bit more generous and included some of the classic NES Mario games as a starting point for newer players..

Claytone wrote:

The Shoemaker wrote: Alright I tried Clay's stage, I beat it on the easiest route :p I tried the hardest route a few times (unknowingly) and almost made it through, so many unsuspecting thwomps!

I also tried your Falcon and your first level. They were tough (lots of devilishly placed piranha plants) But I was able to beat them.

I also reached 50 stars today, which means I can upload 20 levels now. We'll see how long it takes me to get to 10 :p

Awesome! Glad you were able to beat the Falcon stage! There's a lot about it that I don't like in hindsight, but I enjoyed making it so much that I'm glad a few of my friends have at least gotten through it. I think I'm gonna try to make a better Falcon stage sometime in the future.

Oh, and excellent news about the 50 stars. That's no small feat. I assume a lot of that is from your Bullet Bill stage (which I'd forgotten I had played). That was is really great. Looked like you put a lot of work into it, and it paid off. Congrats on the milestone!

It's cool how you can see your level design improve with each stage you make. There are definitely some things I'd like to change about my first level. I might just edit it a bit and upload a new version (not sure if you lose your stars when you delete your levels.)

And thanks! I spent a lot of time fine tuning my bullet bill stage. I wanted it to feel like a classic Mario Stage in design, but with a couple surprises you'd only see in Mario Maker. but yeah a good chunk of my stars came from that one!

Jelly wrote:I have mixed feelings when it comes to Mario Maker. It's like the levels are either gimmick levels that are more fun creating than playing, or they're OK classic Mario style levels that are fine enough playing, but lack any greater value as standalone experiences compared to a full mario game with proper progression.

Nonetheless.. Making levels is fun.

I wish there were features to have 2 people playing local. One could work on creating a level on the game-pad, while the other could play-test it on the screen (not sure if the Wii U could handle two different things in real time though..) You can then revise on the gamepad as you see what your friend does, and then "push" the new version to the big screen.

My girlfriend has not played 2D style mario before, and it comes apparent that this game is only for veteran Mario players. She's not having fun since all levels she finds are waaay over her skill level.

Nintendo should have been a bit more generous and included some of the classic NES Mario games as a starting point for newer players..

I agree that Mario Maker isn't a two way street: it's not something you'll enjoy if you're only playing it for the online community. You need to enjoy making levels. I will say that I really enjoy playing my own levels over and over. One to see where everyone died in your stage, and to go through it and decide if you still like everything about it.

I thought you could do that two player part of it though. I'm pretty sure if you have a separate controller on, you just hit play on the gamepad and the other person can play the level using their controller. Unless you mean you want to simultaneously build levels while someone plays them.

Is this worth $60? It seems good but I thought it would have a $30 price mark.

Ouenben wrote:Here are my first two levels done on my friends wii u while I was visiting him.

My levels :
multiple route mayhem
837F-0000-0042-8A5A

Multiple ways to beat the level, many secrets to be found!

Can you find all 3 secrets?
97CA-0000-0042-850f

Again multiple ways to beat this level, slightly puzzler platformerish with big secrets to be found

Great levels Ouenben! Don't think I got all routes or all 3 secrets, but it was fun going through them.

There is something about this game that makes people design levels that are very uncharacteristic for Mario. Perhaps it's because nothing is at stake when you're playing, you can instantly start over.

Classic 2D Mario levels are usually long runs from left to right where you jump from platform to platform while avoiding enemies, the levels are often challenging yet beatable on your first try if you're on your toes. They have a nice flow and variation.

In this game, most levels are either short with an overwhelming amount of enemies and obstacles, or longer puzzle style stages, where you have to find the right items and path.

It's not really to my taste.. but hey.. I can build the kind of levels that I enjoy.

Slurmee wrote:Is this worth $60? It seems good but I thought it would have a $30 price mark.

It really depends on how much you see yourself making levels. Do you have someone you could make levels with? Adds a lot of replay value that way. If you're just interested to play people's creations, it's not worth it.

Jelly wrote:There is something about this game that makes people design levels that are very uncharacteristic for Mario. Perhaps it's because nothing is at stake when you're playing, you can instantly start over.

Classic 2D Mario levels are usually long runs from left to right where you jump from platform to platform while avoiding enemies, the levels are often challenging yet beatable on your first try if you're on your toes. They have a nice flow and variation.

In this game, most levels are either short with an overwhelming amount of enemies and obstacles, or longer puzzle style stages, where you have to find the right items and path.

It's not really to my taste.. but hey.. I can build the kind of levels that I enjoy.

I'd say it comes from people not being Mario designers, as well as wanting to do something different from the traditional Mario games. I've found a few levels that felt very Mario in spirit, I'll usually follow anyone who makes those kinds of levels. I think after this I'm going to try and make a more traditional level.


On another note, here's a level a made today while I should have been studying! I really wanted to upload it today so hopefully it's well tuned. Let me know if it's too crazy near the end.

Perplexing P-Switches - F67D 0000 005B 7CC9

Also Evildevil, I beat your SMW Ghost House stage!

(edited course code).

This is as good a time as any to post this, given Jelly's comments earlier in the thread.

Here's a nice article from Gamasutra about level design using difficulty/learning ramps and rests. This encapsulates players' feelings of progress and helps ensure that levels aren't simply marked by arbitrarily challenging obstacles.

And here's an opinion/analysis piece on pacing, chill, exhaustion, and training players through design. Note that this is not about being prescriptive about what kinds of stages and obstacles you can make (i.e. you don't have to make everything like the original Mario games), but rather about knowing how to design obstacles that are fun and space them out properly.

The previous article cites this blog post that analyzes a couple of design elements in the original Super Mario Bros. You can see how even simple elements are well thought-out to give the player a feeling of natural progression. It'll be good for everyone to think about these kinds of things as they experiment with designing their own levels.

Anyway, to get back to Jelly's posts, part of the problem is that most people simply aren't good game designers. But of course another problem is that people aren't patient—they want to dive into the new game they just bought and start cranking levels out into the wild. This is exacerbated in my games with open level editors that reward publication of levels, because players often just crank out what they can in order to get the rewards, with no regard for the quality of the level (I don't know if SMM does this, but I did see someone talk about giving someone a star earlier). Again, this is not the only reason people are rushing levels to production. Simple excitement and enjoyment are also factors. But the fact remains that the impulse contributes to poorly-considered level design.

The best solution, if the game allows for it, is really to look for people who look like they know how to design a stage, and hope they make more.

Jelly wrote:There is something about this game that makes people design levels that are very uncharacteristic for Mario. [...] Classic 2D Mario levels are usually long runs from left to right where you jump from platform to platform while avoiding enemies, the levels are often challenging yet beatable on your first try if you're on your toes. They have a nice flow and variation.

In this game, most levels are either short with an overwhelming amount of enemies and obstacles, or longer puzzle style stages, where you have to find the right items and path.

I'm not going to say this is the peak of the crop, but I thought this person did a pretty good job with their level. The design and look felt very close to what I could find in SMW. Light platforming, little secrets, with a theme to tie it together.

Lakitu Heights - A860 0000 005F 7AAC