This Old Neon Forum

The Shoemaker wrote: ↑23 Feb 2019 10:36

Kong Wen wrote: ↑23 Feb 2019 04:34 Koei has been brought in to co-develop Fire Emblem Three Houses with Intelligent Systems.

Weird! Wonder If they were there from the start or if they are just helping with end development stuff.

Kinda weird, but kinda not. Bandai Namco developed Smash Bros. Ultimate. It seems like Nintendo are more willing this generation to let experienced developers work on their primary properties. Koei has a shitload of strategy game experience that could be really useful, depending on some of the new systems and structures they're trying to use in Three Houses—the last direct certainly made it look a lot different than a normal FE game.

Three Houses comes out on Friday, and people who register it to their My Nintendo account can get a free copy of male Byleth in Fire Emblem Heroes.

Something I really appreciate about Three Houses is the overall presentation and quality of the dialogue. Support and story conversations use character models that react to what's happening in the scene and it's all voice acted. The dialogue as well feels like they're actually trying again, compared to Fates where the dialogue felt too modern at times, and characters felt a bit one note. Also, lots of lore to tie the world together. Something I've missed having since the Tellius games.

The Shoemaker wrote: ↑01 Aug 2019 03:46 Something I really appreciate about Three Houses is the overall presentation and quality of the dialogue. Support and story conversations use character models that react to what's happening in the scene and it's all voice acted. The dialogue as well feels like they're actually trying again, compared to Fates where the dialogue felt too modern at times, and characters felt a bit one note. Also, lots of lore to tie the world together. Something I've missed having since the Tellius games.

I agree 100%. So far it seems like everything is voiced? Even just the wandering around town talking to people stuff! That's just wild. I do have a problem with some of the early support conversations, but they're early ones yet. The overall plot is leaning on a couple of worrisome tropes as well, but I'll reserve judgment on them until I see how they pan out.

Kong Wen wrote: ↑01 Aug 2019 13:54

The Shoemaker wrote: ↑01 Aug 2019 03:46 Something I really appreciate about Three Houses is the overall presentation and quality of the dialogue. Support and story conversations use character models that react to what's happening in the scene and it's all voice acted. The dialogue as well feels like they're actually trying again, compared to Fates where the dialogue felt too modern at times, and characters felt a bit one note. Also, lots of lore to tie the world together. Something I've missed having since the Tellius games.

I agree 100%. So far it seems like everything is voiced? Even just the wandering around town talking to people stuff! That's just wild. I do have a problem with some of the early support conversations, but they're early ones yet. The overall plot is leaning on a couple of worrisome tropes as well, but I'll reserve judgment on them until I see how they pan out.

The only non-voice stuff I've found is the little background details characters will give you when you're picking up a quest, so nothing important.

I'm pretty early in the story so I can't really judge it, though it was a bit eye roll inducing how immediately you become a professor at the school. Still, I appreciate the world detail they fit into the story dialogue.

Some of the early supports for me have followed common tropes, but with a twist. Like Dorethea is seen as the "promiscuous" character, but she explains that due to her common birth she dates a lot of guys because she knows she needs to set herself up for a good marriage. Caspar is the type of character that's always training and is a bit of a hot head, but he explains that he's a second son with no inheritance so he needs to train to stand out for himself.

Everyone has that little bit of extra detail that I appreciate.

My overall sweeping impressions of the game:

-It's a bit too easy even without taking into account features such as the time reversal.

-I think the gameplay is worse than Fates in various ways. I can do without pair up. That's not really the problem. However, I hate the removal of the weapon triangle and the new class system. Characters end up feeling very samey. Class upgrades don't feel that impactful unless you're transitioning from infantry to cavalry or flier.

-Gambits are interesting and can be fun, but can also be alternatively cheesy and overpowered or useless and questionable. To give some examples, some gambits do barely any damage or offer minimal benefit (white mage healing). You're better off in those cases using regular attacks. In other cases, gambits can stun a half dozen units, refresh the turn of multiple allies or give many allies +5 movement for a turn. The latter is completely absurd and game breaking, as well as available at the very start of the campaign.

-I like the monastery.

-I really like the story, the lore and the characters. This game is a big upgrade from Fates in these regards. I just don't think the gameplay is as good or challenging, personally.

Gameplay is definitely on the easier side, even on hard.

I really like what they did with combat abilities, making them a guaranteed thing at the cost of weapon durability, rather than hoping they activate during battle.

Also, I imagine the effectiveness of gambits are based on what rank they are, how much they are leveled up, and the units Authority/charm stats. They are also a bonus in the sense that the enemy cannot counterattack. They really come into play when you fight those monsters that have the shields.

I really like the change they made to magic, making them a learned skill and not an item. Bows feel a lot more effective as well with their insane range.

No weapon triangle, but I do like that weapon weight feels like it plays a bigger role and is often the basis for weather I choose a weapon or not.

Classes do feel a bit samey with units being able to use almost any weapons they want. I like that each class has abilities to work towards though.

Overall, I'm more impressed with this game the more I play it. The main reason is they have taken traditional series staple mechanics and folded them into a layer of lore and world-building. So you're not just grinding skill points, you're giving/receiving instruction. You're not just unlocking classes, you're writing certification exams. You're not just taking a vacation at an arena/coliseum to grind levels, you're entering tournaments or going on missions. Even the manner in which you get a Dancer on your team is rooted in in-world events. I like that. It makes the world and lore feel much more real and meaningful when it's attached to the game's systems.

I was initially kind of disappointed by every one of the game's "main plot points" being painfully predictable. I think I had everyone's motivations and character arcs plotted out within the first few missions. But now that I've passed a certain important point in the story, I can understand why they made everything so obvious—they wanted the player to know what was coming so they could plan their actions, relationships, and choices in advance, without outright saying "this character is going to do this thing, so get ready to make this choice." Strongly hinting at lines that characters are going to draw lets you plan what side of the line you want to be on.

The game is definitely on the easier side, but maybe we're all extremely well-prepared? I do like the streamlined mechanics of the game, including what Shoe mentioned about magic getting refreshed after each battle, and the combat skills that use durability to allow you to do different things. I don't mind classes being relatively interchangeable, because the real point of classes is to accrue useful abilities (axe-/sword-/lance-breaker). I was a little weirded out by the loss of the weapon triangle, but those skills kind of revive it in practice. I rarely use Gambits. I don't care about losing pairing up; the Adjutant mechanic and spells like Rescue are adequate replacements for my needs.

My final two thoughts—one thing I really like, and one thing I still so far don't like:

I really like that they take their time, giving you lots of time in the Monastery to get to know the world and the lore and to bond with your students and the other characters. Like, lots of time. Once the plot starts doing things, all that time you spent in the first few dozen hours really gives you a sense of nostalgia, and the game properly earned it.

I still so far don't like that the main character is a silent, empty vessel. I get that they have to make the "avatar" character something of a blank slate for the player, but having powerful, respected main characters with actual personality is much more interesting and engaging. Ike is powerful and respected and he has a well-written character. Byleth is an important cog in this whole overarching story, and does some interesting stuff, but without really having any personality or memorable reactions. Being emotionless and stony is part of his character, but that doesn't make it any less boring.

When I'm finished with this Black Eagles path, I'll definitely be starting a new game almost immediately. In addition to choosing a new house, I'll also be mixing up my team investment strategy... I've been keeping everyone pretty evenly-developed right now, but in my next game I'm going to focus hard on a few characters and let them carry the day.

I agree with you that they did a great job integrating the gameplay of the game into the world and lore. I also was very happy with the way the dancer class was introduced. To add, I also like the way the crests are factored into both the story and gameplay. They're a minor mechanic in the game overall, but every now and then they carry some weight.

I just can't abide by the loss of the weapon triangle. I tolerate it more than I did in Echoes, because at least the breaker skills are there in 3 Houses. Ultimately, however, breaker skills just don't feel very powerful, nor are they a proper substitution for a core mechanic of the series. In Fates, the weapon triangle made a bigger difference. From B rank in a weapon onward, having a weapon triangle advantage actually overtly affected damage. Moreover, some weapons were designed to increase the effects of the weapon triangle or invert it or both, to such an extent that you really had to pay attention to what both you and the enemy were using in battles. Fates was a much more tactical game that required a lot more thought with every turn you took. This was partly because of pair ups, partly because enemies hit really hard, and partly because of the weapon triangle. By contrast, Three Houses feels a lot more simplistic. There's still some strategy here, but I still feel it is a step back overall. A big problem with Three Houses is not just that the weapon triangle was substituted for the breaker skills; it's also that the enemy almost never has these skills. Therefore, your opposition almost never makes use of this watered down weapon system. If we saw maps of units walking around with lancebreaker, it would make it more sensible to care, as the player, about the weapon deployments and positioning of your team. Maybe the new downloadable difficulty level will fix some of my gripes. To add something real quick, I've played on hard mode the entire time.

In Three House's defense, it brought back weapon durability and made it feel a lot more impactful. You burn through weapon durability fast thanks to the combat arts. The fact that funds are limited also makes weapon durability feel like an actually important mechanic. Limited weapon durability is one reason why I often will lean on magic and gambits, even though they aren't strictly necessary at times.

I agree with you on the protag. Byleth is less offensively stupid than Corrin at least, but other than that Byleth is pretty boring. I do like some of the sarcastic dialogue choices Byleth has, but it's not enough to make Byleth interesting in his or her own right. I can tolerate the direction they went with, however, because the MC is largely just a plot device. The real main characters are the three house lords and Rhea.

I feel like Corrin and Byleth are on two ends of a spectrum. Corrin was way too vocal and emotional, while Byleth is a silent blank slate. I definitely prefer Blyeth, but the writing is a lot better in this game so I think they could have wrote a better avatar character. It definitely makes most interactions awkward. Would be nice if he/she at least had a few sound bites during dialogue like they do when they level up.