Fire Emblem Discussion

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Kong Wen
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Re: Fire Emblem Discussion

Post by Kong Wen »

Jordan wrote: 06 Aug 2019 15:16I just can't abide by the loss of the weapon triangle. [...] A big problem with Three Houses is not just that the weapon triangle was substituted for the breaker skills; it's also that the enemy almost never has these skills. [...] If we saw maps of units walking around with lancebreaker, it would make it more sensible to care, as the player, about the weapon deployments and positioning of your team.
I agree with these gripes. I have found myself instinctively deploying based on weapon triangle considerations, even when it's not warranted (and earlier in the game, when I forgot it wasn't a thing, I found myself thinking "why is my lance guy tanking these axes so easily?!"). The more interesting strategic deployment issue now is physical units paired with magical units, where you can't just plant a tank in the middle of a path if they can get zapped. It's still overall much more simplistic.
Jordan wrote: 06 Aug 2019 15:16I can tolerate the direction they went with, however, because the MC is largely just a plot device. The real main characters are the three house lords and Rhea.
Yeah, even if Byleth plays the same role as Robin in Awakening, Robin at least had some character. It hurts a little more because Byleth has some cool plot elements that make them potentially interesting, but they're never fleshed out. Ah well.
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Re: Fire Emblem Discussion

Post by Jordan »

Minor meta point regarding Byleth: The male Byleth English voice actor ended up becoming embroiled in scandal, forcing Nintendo to recast Male Byleth's VA entirely for PR reasons. Personally...I think they should have just kept the original VA anyways, but Nintendo caved and decided to hire somebody else to redo all the lines, which will be patched in later or something. Apparently the original VA had a history of being abusive toward women. He apologized for this, but Nintendo did not want to be associated with him once the news became public. In that sense the minimalist voiced script for Byleth was something of a saving grace for them, as it means there is less to re-voice. I actually wonder if Nintendo knew about the history with him all along and had him voice little just in case his history came to light and they had to recast. I kind of doubt that's the case, though, as it would have made little sense for them. Anyways, that's not a justification for the minimalist script or the silent protagonist, but just a coincidence with this game's localization.
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Kong Wen
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Re: Fire Emblem Discussion

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Jordan wrote: 06 Aug 2019 19:57 Minor meta point regarding Byleth: The male Byleth English voice actor ended up becoming embroiled in scandal, forcing Nintendo to recast Male Byleth's VA entirely for PR reasons. Personally...I think they should have just kept the original VA anyways, but Nintendo caved and decided to hire somebody else to redo all the lines, which will be patched in later or something. Apparently the original VA had a history of being abusive toward women. He apologized for this, but Nintendo did not want to be associated with him once the news became public. In that sense the minimalist voiced script for Byleth was something of a saving grace for them, as it means there is less to re-voice. I actually wonder if Nintendo knew about the history with him all along and had him voice little just in case his history came to light and they had to recast. I kind of doubt that's the case, though, as it would have made little sense for them. Anyways, that's not a justification for the minimalist script or the silent protagonist, but just a coincidence with this game's localization.
If anything, maybe they'll be inclined to record a handful more lines with the new, better VA. Like Shoe said, even a couple of extra voiced lines in paralogues or support conversations would go a long way to making him feel like an actual character in the game. (Not likely to happen since they'd need to call the female VA back in, too.)
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Re: Fire Emblem Discussion

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I can't see them adding in extra lines with the new voice actor. Female voice actor aside, they would need to get the actors for all the other supported actors to add new lines.

They are changing the actor in FE Heroes for Byleth as well, though I can see that character having even more dialogue than Three Houses Byleth :lol:

As another aside, it's par for the course for the series, but the music in this game is fantastic.
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Re: Fire Emblem Discussion

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The Shoemaker wrote: 06 Aug 2019 21:31 They are changing the actor in FE Heroes for Byleth as well, though I can see that character having even more dialogue than Three Houses Byleth :lol:

As another aside, it's par for the course for the series, but the music in this game is fantastic.
The better guy's lines are already in Heroes. They delayed his launch by a day or so to accommodate the change. Pretty impressive turnaround all things considered!

Definitely agree about the music. One tune in particular has been in my head and I've been singing it to the dog, much to her chagrin.
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Re: Fire Emblem Discussion

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Kong Wen wrote: 06 Aug 2019 22:35
The Shoemaker wrote: 06 Aug 2019 21:31 They are changing the actor in FE Heroes for Byleth as well, though I can see that character having even more dialogue than Three Houses Byleth :lol:

As another aside, it's par for the course for the series, but the music in this game is fantastic.
The better guy's lines are already in Heroes. They delayed his launch by a day or so to accommodate the change. Pretty impressive turnaround all things considered!

Definitely agree about the music. One tune in particular has been in my head and I've been singing it to the dog, much to her chagrin.
I can only assume they were prudent and recorded Three Houses dialogue at the same time as Heroes. I wonder if they are just waiting for Lunatic mode to be ready to send the patch out.
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Re: Fire Emblem Discussion

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Fire Emblem: Three Houses disappointed me for the first time last night. I'm going to include very light spoiler tags here because I'm further than some people, and I'd appreciate if others would do the same, since some others are further than me.
Spoiler
I was fighting bad guys on a nice big map, and one of the enemy units was a certain character. I was hoping I could talk to that character, but didn't have the option. The win condition was to defeat the enemy commander, so I made sure to do that without killing the character in question, but then nothing remarkable happened—no dialogue, no special scene, etc.

After that, I was fighting bad guys on a nice big map, and one of the enemy reinforcements was a different certain character. The win conditions were different, so I did have to engage this character, but again, there was no "Talk" option, and there wasn't even a special dialogue or scene after the battle was over.

If you're going to have to fight these characters, they should at least make a bigger deal of it. The "Talk" option is woefully underutilized in this game so far (e.g. previous games have all kinds of "talk to this person with this person to recruit" scenarios). Overall, this game feels more like you're riding a rollercoaster than shaping events.
On an unrelated note, the map variety is not great. I keep playing the same maps over and over. This big cool story set-piece was on a map I had already played hours ago for a Paralogue.
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Re: Fire Emblem Discussion

Post by Jordan »

So about the "talk" thing...

I had recruited
Spoiler
Lorenz
as the Blue Lions in Part 1. They did not join me post-timeskip. However, I met them in battle and defeated them with Byleth. Having done so, it actually gave me the option to either instigate their defection or kill them. I chose the former of course.

I'm not sure if you were thinking about this or something else. I also know that certain characters have unique dialogue if they encounter each other as adversaries, such as Annete vs. Mercedes.
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Re: Fire Emblem Discussion

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I beat this earlier tonight.
Spoiler
The encounters I was disappointed with were with Ashe and Lorentz, but I had never recruited them, so maybe that's why I never had the opportunity to even talk to them. Still very disappointing. I beat Ashe's map without hurting him, and instead of having a brief dialogue where he gets away, or says anything, the game just carries on at lightning pace. Even a "go back home, Ashe" after the battle would have been nice.
On that note, I do find that the plot in this game is kind of all over the place. The opening is nicely paced, but then when it gets into the real calamitous stuff, it just tosses you from one big encounter to the next with little build-up. The final three battles are things that could have been supported by entire chapters. Plus stuff like the identity of the Death Knight was just a shallow, repercussion-free crappy version of something like Black Knight from Tellius, which had actual weighty story consequences.
Spoiler
It doesn't help that this was treated in a very off the cuff way in my play-through. Seteth just says something like "we never even found out if Jeritza is the Death Knight"—and then after defeating him a couple more times, we still never find out! Anti-climactic.
Part of the problem here might be that you're expected to fill in the blanks with snippets you pick up in play-throughs of the other 3 paths, so I suppose that's what I'll do now before I start to put together final thoughts. Even if this is the case—which I'll generously assume to be true for now—it's an odd structure to leave important information out of an entire start-to-credits play-through unless you play the game again. Still, I'm happy they included all of the paths on the same fucking cart this time instead of selling them separately. *cough*Fates*cough*
Spoiler
Also, after the timeskip for my path at least, Alois, Manuela, and Hanneman never make another appearance and are never mentioned again. Byleth sees a vision of Dimitri, but it's never explored or paid off in any way. It's very annoying just how many loose ends are in this unraveled plot just for the sake of rushing things along. Even if the others paths do rectify this by filling in gaps, this game is going to lose points for the presentation by keeping players frustrated for 60 hours. The first play-through should be the most engaging and satisfying one, since most players are only going to finish the game once.
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Re: Fire Emblem Discussion

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I'm still a long ways away from the finish line. To be clear about something, the Black Eagles story is actually multiple chapters shorter than the other 3 routes for some reason. I'll post a review of the game when I complete my Blue Lions run though. As a vague outline, I think this game has definite upsides and downsides. With respect to your point about the different paths for instance, I'm actually not entirely happy about including all the paths on the same file instead of selling them separately. The reason I feel this way is because all the paths are the same pre-timeskip, which makes 2/3 of the game tedious if you want to do another path. I actually preferred Fates because at least each route was a separate game, although even there maps were reused (though not entirely reused; the enemy placements were at least different on reused maps). If I have to make a simple choice between A.) Three paths for free, but all of them have recycled content or B.) Three paths, all of which cost money, but each of them are unique, I'll choose B. In the case of Three Houses, it feels like they wrote the pre-timeskip for Blue Lions and then retroactively applied it to Black Eagles and Golden Deer. There is no reason why Golden Deer should care about Ashe's adoptive father or Sylvain's brother. It simply does not make sense for them to experience the exact same conflicts as the Blue Lions. Nonetheless, this is what Three Houses gave us. I would have gladly paid an extra $20.00 or so for a fleshed out Golden Deer or Black Eagles pre-timeskip plot where they dealt with conflicts within the Alliance or Empire respectively. I like Fire Emblem enough to be willing to shell out the extra cash unless I'm severely burnt out on the gameplay. An easy counterpoint to the dichotomy I have presented is that you could say, "Well it is not mutually exclusive that they can offer multiple paths for free AND make each of them unique." I absolutely agree with this, but unfortunately that is not what we received with either Fates or Three Houses.

I'm not as concerned about storyline in Fire Emblem. It's why I like Fates even though I think the story and lore is utter trash. With respect to Three Houses, I think the story has some good points and bad points, but I love the lore. It has a lot of fine political details which I appreciate, including some sort of backstory for all the noble houses. I distinguish between story and lore in the following way: The story for me entails the main adventure and the trials and travails that the protagonist and other heroes experience. In all honesty, I never expect much from the story of a Fire Emblem game. I usually enjoy these games more for the supports that flesh out characters individually. The lore (by my definition) concerns character house or individual backstories or details about the world and its history.

If I do review the game, you will find that I do not even consider story as a point of interest in my review. This is not because I don't care about the story. It's because I don't value story much in games, or even at all. Gameplay is far more important to me. As far as the gameplay in Three Houses is concerned, it's somewhat middling by my estimation. I would consider the Tellius games and Fates (Conquest) to be high points of gameplay in Fire Emblem. Those games were deeply tactical and made me really think about each action I took. Three Houses, sadly, is not quite at their level. I think part of this can be fixed with a harder difficulty level, but part of it is rooted in the mechanics of Three Houses and some questionable balance decisions.

Presuming they make a concerted effort with DLC, there are a few directions I believe they can go in:
Spoiler
-Invasions of a hypothetical unified Fodlan (under your current house) by a coalition of other powers, such as Srengians, Almyrans, Dagda, Morfis and Albinea. This would involve loading up your previous completed save file and having to deal with a new conflict involving a coalition of predatory foreign powers.

-"Pre-LC" in which you take control of the ancestors or fathers and mothers of the characters in the game, including people such as King Lambert, Dimitri's father. This would involve playing a totally different story campaign.

-Alternative perspectives which introduce totally new casts of characters that occupy the same universe, perhaps from some of the foreign powers described above.

-Individual character stories which simply take existing characters and give them their own fleshed out mini-campaigns of sorts, possibly in conjunction with other characters (e.g. close characters like Ingrid, Sylvain and Felix could share a campaign). These could retain existing characters and introduce new ones.

-Simply adding on content to the base game, such as additional paralogues or even additional chapters pre and post-timeskip for each of the houses.
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