This Old Neon Forum

Very interesting episode! Happy to see Arya as (not so) Cat of the Canals. Didn't think she would do that. I actually thought they would have

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shown a scene of an unknown girl killing someone, only for us to find that it was actually Arya as she removed her "face". Maybe they'll still do that, but with the poisoning she has to do I'm not sure if there will be time for that this season. Maybe it will work as a season 6 opener.

Good scene with Sansa and Reek. I think Theon's at the point of denial, he's very scared of accepting his identity. Not sure sure what Sansa will do now that she knows her brothers are alive. Was it a deliberate point or is it just so that she has more to be hopeful about? Book spoilers:

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Maybe she'll end up with Stannis and tell him that Bran and Rickon are alive, sending Davos to go find them?

Definitely an interesting conversation between Tyrion and Danny. Cool to see them talk about their fathers, as well as Danny admitting that she can't stay in Meereen. I wonder if this is Tyrion's fate in the books as well, I kind of see it going in a different direction. I'm wondering what the final conflict will be for Danny this season with the Harpy not being a problem anymore.

Jon's battle was probably the most impressive cinematography I've seen on the show so far. I think it was visually more interesting than the battle at the wall last season. Especially since it included a Giant and White Walkers. I don't know if it was as spoilery as you said Kong, but it definitely revealed a couple things about the books! I don't really like the fast skeletal White Walkers, if you can call them that. The humaniod ones are badass though. When the wildlings die do they turn into the cool ones or the skeletal ones? Or maybe do the cool ones need to touch them to turn them into one of them, like the baby last season.

The Shoemaker wrote:Definitely an interesting conversation between Tyrion and Danny. Cool to see them talk about their fathers, as well as Danny admitting that she can't stay in Meereen. I wonder if this is Tyrion's fate in the books as well, I kind of see it going in a different direction. I'm wondering what the final conflict will be for Danny this season with the Harpy not being a problem anymore.

I don't think the Sons of the Harpy are not a problem anymore, but I wonder if her final conflict is going to be related to the dragons and the fighting pits, as in the book, or if we're not going to get there quite yet.

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They might be using Tyrion as a stand-in for Barristan until they get the show caught up with his storyline.

The Shoemaker wrote:Jon's battle was probably the most impressive cinematography I've seen on the show so far. I think it was visually more interesting than the battle at the wall last season. Especially since it included a Giant and White Walkers. I don't know if it was as spoilery as you said Kong, but it definitely revealed a couple things about the books! I don't really like the fast skeletal White Walkers, if you can call them that. The humaniod ones are badass though. When the wildlings die do they turn into the cool ones or the skeletal ones? Or maybe do the cool ones need to touch them to turn them into one of them, like the baby last season.

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Pretty much all that stuff you just mentioned was the spoilers I was alluding to. The huge spoiler being the white walker menacingly staring Jon down while raising all the dead wildlings from the dead. Anyway, all those corpses aren't white walkers, they're just animated corpses/zombies, a hired dead army. The crazy samurai ones are the actual race of white walkers, whatever they are. We don't even know that they're dead, just that they're aligned with death (although, of course, the Faceless Man would argue that all gods are just death wearing different faces). I suspect the true samurai walkers have to be "born" like the baby we saw a couple seasons ago.

Episode 9.

Kong Wen wrote:Episode 9.

Consider this post 'upvoted'

Decent episode. The burning was an interesting addition. Definitely had me horrified, I really didn't think they would do it. Thought Stannis would back out at the last minute. I don't feel like the stakes were high enough for him to resort to this, especially since this is the guy who survived a seige at Dragonstone for an entire year eating nothing but mice and leather boots. Now because of "20 good men" he kills his only heir? Kind of felt like another Sansa rape scene where it was included just to shock us, especially since this isn't the moment in the books where this happens. They really just showed us scenes of Stannis being a caring father just to surprise us when he's willing to burn her. But in the end there's only so much screen time. Dillane's acting was very good though, could see the weight of the moment in his eyes, the scenes overall were great. Really liked Shireen being all excited about the Dance of the Dragons.

If this is the last we see of Dorne this season I really have to wonder why they included it. Really, this whole time Bronn has been telling us how stupid this story is, and now even Doran admits it was stupid and there was a much simplier way of getting Myrcella back (by asking). Dorne had an awesome climax in A Feast For Crows which was missing in this scene. I really do think they should have stuck with the Arianne plot from the books. I think her Queen Maker plot would have resonated with viewers to be perfectly honest. Book spoilers

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interesting that Tyst is taking over Nym's role in the books though, perhaps that's the important part of the story?

Major A Dance With Dragons book spoilers:

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Who else thinks Olly's gonna stab the daylights out of Jon next episode?

Danny's scene was a little sloppy at times, ended up just looking like a lot of standing around (why didn't the harpy just throw a spear and harpoon Danny like Jorah did to them?). Was very cool to see her finally ride Drogon though, the music really just hit the moment home. I heard people complain about the CGI but I thought it was fine. On a side note, was did the Harpy decide to kill the people in the crowd? Aren't those the people they were fighting for? Did the marriage and opening the pits do nothing? I can't remember what the show said their motivation was, maybe they're just a terrorist group and that's it?

Arya was not bad, perhaps a bit too much staring on her part. I wonder if she'll manage to kill both of her targets next week or just settle on one.

The Shoemaker wrote:Kind of felt like another Sansa rape scene where it was included just to shock us, especially since this isn't the moment in the books where this happens. They really just showed us scenes of Stannis being a caring father just to surprise us when he's willing to burn her.

Where in the books this happens is not relevant, since this isn't the books. Also, the Sansa rape scene wasn't included just to shock us—it's an important part of the story. Similarly, this (and Stannis's setup) isn't just a cheap surprise, but an important part of the story. We didn't get to see anything at Dragonstone. We know Stannis is serious and dutifully supported his brother's war, but now this is his claim to the throne. This is the one thing he believes in, and to top it off, he's desperate. All the scenes between Stannis and his daughter leading up to this episode show us just how much he believes in it, needs it, wants it, and just how difficult a decision it is for him. Not only that, but since we can't see the future, we don't know how this is going to affect him yet. This will definitely be the setup for a breaking point with Stannis. I don't think it's fair to be dismissive of good craft just because it's different from other, slightly pulpier craft.

The Shoemaker wrote:If this is the last we see of Dorne this season I really have to wonder why they included it.

I can't tell if you're serious. There's a lot going on in these scenes. I thought they did a wonderful job of setting up Doran's character, showing how different he is from Oberyn, and also giving a little hint of some quiet genius bubbling under the surface. I think we have a good reason to be suspicious of his obsequiousness.

The Shoemaker wrote:Danny's scene was a little sloppy at times, ended up just looking like a lot of standing around (why didn't the harpy just throw a spear and harpoon Danny like Jorah did to them?).

Because it's not as personal. They're not soldiers. They're not just trying to kill her. They're assassins. They want her death to symbolize something.

The Shoemaker wrote:I heard people complain about the CGI but I thought it was fine. On a side note, was did the Harpy decide to kill the people in the crowd? Aren't those the people they were fighting for? Did the marriage and opening the pits do nothing? I can't remember what the show said their motivation was, maybe they're just a terrorist group and that's it?

I think the marriage and opening the pits doing nothing is supposed to be the plot point of that attack. We don't know their motivation. We don't know what they want. Even her capitulations didn't save her. She can't control the city. Now what? It's a low moment for her. It's going to be a pivotal moment. I thought the CGI was the worst part of the scene. The whole set piece was brilliantly executed except for that one weak point. The CGI on Drogon was fine, it was just the flying away part that was sloppy. But I give them a pass on that, since that shit's expensive, and this is still just HBO's TV budget after all.

The Shoemaker wrote:Arya was not bad, perhaps a bit too much staring on her part. I wonder if she'll manage to kill both of her targets next week or just settle on one.

I found her scene nicely tense. She can't trick her mentor though—he definitely knows what's going on—so I'm left wondering whether Meryn is her true target after all (or whether this is meant to test her commitment to letting go of her old Arya-grudges).

As for your spoiler question, is the next episode the season finale? Because if so, then yes, I can see that happening at the end of the season.

Kong Wen wrote:

The Shoemaker wrote:Kind of felt like another Sansa rape scene where it was included just to shock us, especially since this isn't the moment in the books where this happens. They really just showed us scenes of Stannis being a caring father just to surprise us when he's willing to burn her.

Where in the books this happens is not relevant, since this isn't the books. Also, the Sansa rape scene wasn't included just to shock us—it's an important part of the story. Similarly, this (and Stannis's setup) isn't just a cheap surprise, but an important part of the story. We didn't get to see anything at Dragonstone. We know Stannis is serious and dutifully supported his brother's war, but now this is his claim to the throne. This is the one thing he believes in, and to top it off, he's desperate. All the scenes between Stannis and his daughter leading up to this episode show us just how much he believes in it, needs it, wants it, and just how difficult a decision it is for him. Not only that, but since we can't see the future, we don't know how this is going to affect him yet. This will definitely be the setup for a breaking point with Stannis. I don't think it's fair to be dismissive of good craft just because it's different from other, slightly pulpier craft.

The Shoemaker wrote:If this is the last we see of Dorne this season I really have to wonder why they included it.

I can't tell if you're serious. There's a lot going on in these scenes. I thought they did a wonderful job of setting up Doran's character, showing how different he is from Oberyn, and also giving a little hint of some quiet genius bubbling under the surface. I think we have a good reason to be suspicious of his obsequiousness.

The Shoemaker wrote:Danny's scene was a little sloppy at times, ended up just looking like a lot of standing around (why didn't the harpy just throw a spear and harpoon Danny like Jorah did to them?).

Because it's not as personal. They're not soldiers. They're not just trying to kill her. They're assassins. They want her death to symbolize something.

The Shoemaker wrote:I heard people complain about the CGI but I thought it was fine. On a side note, was did the Harpy decide to kill the people in the crowd? Aren't those the people they were fighting for? Did the marriage and opening the pits do nothing? I can't remember what the show said their motivation was, maybe they're just a terrorist group and that's it?

I think the marriage and opening the pits doing nothing is supposed to be the plot point of that attack. We don't know their motivation. We don't know what they want. Even her capitulations didn't save her. She can't control the city. Now what? It's a low moment for her. It's going to be a pivotal moment. I thought the CGI was the worst part of the scene. The whole set piece was brilliantly executed except for that one weak point. The CGI on Drogon was fine, it was just the flying away part that was sloppy. But I give them a pass on that, since that shit's expensive, and this is still just HBO's TV budget after all.

The Shoemaker wrote:Arya was not bad, perhaps a bit too much staring on her part. I wonder if she'll manage to kill both of her targets next week or just settle on one.

I found her scene nicely tense. She can't trick her mentor though—he definitely knows what's going on—so I'm left wondering whether Meryn is her true target after all (or whether this is meant to test her commitment to letting go of her old Arya-grudges).

As for your spoiler question, is the next episode the season finale? Because if so, then yes, I can see that happening at the end of the season.

After the episode the producers said (Winds of Winter spoilers)

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that Shireen burns in the books. Just makes me wonder why they decided that this was the breaking point for Stannis and not the moment George wrote. We'll have to read the books first, perhaps whatever George has planned doesn't go with where the show's story is going

. But Stannis did mention in season 2 how he survived on mice and boots for a year in Dragonstone, so for me I didn't completely buy that he was ready to burn Shireen just like that. But in the show he is much more invested in the Lord of Light than in the books. It's an interesting parallel though because at this point in the books Stannis is telling his army that

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if he dies he wants them to crown Shireen, not burn her. He is also refusing to burn the non-believers in his army for the Lord of Light, despite the situation being dire. On another note, I think this applies to both the show and the books, I think this is definitely the downfall of Stannis. I think burning his daughter is a step too far and because of it I think he will fail.

I didn't hate the episode or the scene, I just think it was rash, like Danaerys beheading the Meerenese guy in the second episode.

Doran's character continues to be great, but I really don't see why Jaime needed to be there, and why they needed him to sneak into Dorne when both the veiwers and the characters on screen knew it was a stupid plan. Why did they bother investing the time to cast three new characters that got zero development (beyond being the most beautiful woman in the world), when they could've casted one new character and developed her (Arianne)? If they had to put Jaime in Dorne, I really think they could have thought of something better than this. I also thought it was pretty lame how Bronn's only punishment was a punch in the face, Dorne was a joke. I do think it will be better next season though with Tryst on the small counsel and presumably focusing more on Doran.

I guess the harpy acting nuts is just her motivation to get the heck out of Meeren as soon as possible :p

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I'm not sure if they'll have her leave and come back to Mereen like in the books because there's no war to come back to. Maybe she'll just come back and set fire to all the Harpy once and for allÉ

No Arya can't fool Jaqen. I thought it was funny of him when Arya said the thin man wasn't hungry "I guess that is why a man is thin". My guess for next episode is (some book spoils)

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Arya will offer herself sexually to Meryn, only to kill him. At least that's what I feel that scene was setting up for us, unless Meryn's pedophillia was just to give Arya a reason to kill him. If she kills Meryn, perhaps Jaqun will blind her like in the books when she killed Dareon (Nights Watch guy)

I might have missed it, but I was surprised that the "previously of Game of Thrones" section didn't show Meryn Trant beating up Sansa and killing Syrio, would have reminded the viewers who Meryn was.

And yes this week is the finale, should be a good one, lots of moments to cover.

Another side note: I really appreciate all the work they put into the set on this show, especially this season. Like the Dorne set really is beautiful, the Spain palace they have is great. Same with all the different costumes they have, you can really tell Dorne is a very different nation. The room of faces scene with Arya a couple episodes ago was good as well. They actually made like 300 unique faces I believe, some number like that. The weirdwood tree for Sansa`s wedding too, they individually stain every leaf red for those trees. I also loved the the heavy snow falling on the Night`s Watch in the last episode. Not sure if they got lucky and filmed right when it was snowing heavy, but it just looked great. I hope when Winter comes they find a way to put snow in King`s Landing too. Also the pit with Danny from last week, they spent 12 days building that pit just for a couple scenes, it`s all really great.

Episode 10.

I'm hesitant to discuss this episode here, even in spoiler tags, because there are massive spoilers for both the show and the books.

Kiwi, Shoe, maybe we can start up a little group PM conversation if you're interested!?

Kong Wen wrote:Episode 10.

I'm hesitant to discuss this episode here, even in spoiler tags, because there are massive spoilers for both the show and the books.

Kiwi, Shoe, maybe we can start up a little group PM conversation if you're interested!?

Yeah that's probably something we could do!

Overall I'd give the finale a 7.5-8/10, which would probably be my general review of this season as well. Some moments worked, some really just couldn't have lived up to the way the books did it (too much internal development for many characters in the final chapters of the books). I liked Arya and Cersai the most I think, don't know what to think about Stannis, Dorne left me sour ("You want a good girl but need a bad pussy"), and Jon was fine.

The show is definitely in an interesting spot now, I have no idea where some of the plot lines will go and what will make it into the books.