This Old Neon Forum

This could be fun. Stern is creating a Game of Thrones pinball table.

Here's a neat look into designing the Pit scene from season 5.

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sCnsBC-XlCo

Cool that they used real fire for the dragon, and that they set actual people on fire..

OK, I stayed up late to watch the premiere of season 6 last night. It's funny how this show is structured, really. They have like 10 plot threads that they need to pace ahead each episode, while still maintaining some continuity. It's quite the juggling act. Anyway, episode 1 was a good one. Not going to say much specific for fear of spoilers. There were satisfying moments (which is saying something, in a show that stymies catharsis like Thrones does) and there were some classic cliff-hangers. Looking forward to next week!

Episode 1 of season 6 seemed just like a mini intro to set everything up. They had to cram in as much as possible so they can have a starting point. I speculate that future episodes will focus on a much smaller amount of story threads.

Absent was the Bran thread. I thought he was going to get back in this season!

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Really hope the red woman can do something about the John Snow situation, but she seems all sad at the fact that she saw visions that didn't come true, and that her body is not very hot when she turns all old.

I also am really liking the Theon foursome now! Woo!

Alright, opinions:

- There were a few lines within the episode I appreciated. I liked that Roose actually mentioned that marrying Sansa to Ramsay should piss off the Lannister's, and that they need Sansa to rally the support of the Northern lords. I also liked that Cersei mentioned her obsession with her prophecy, Daario mentioning Jorah only wants to find Dany because he loves her, and the line about Ed being their only hopes. Felt like those were good lines for book readers.

- The Wall: Overall not much happened. I find it funny that they would leave Jon's body out in the open, in a place where they know dead people turn into White Walkers. But anyways, I didn't really understand Davos and co's motivation to protect Jon's body, nor did I understand Thorne and co's desire to get to Jon's body. If they wanted the body, why did they leave it out in the open after killing him? Anyways, I love how Thorne says he never disobeyed a command, all he did was kill the Lord Commander Clearly not the guy anyone should be listening to. Liam Cunningham played his role well though.

- With Melisandre, I liked the reveal, I didn't really like the execution. Honestly, the full frontal nudity was unnecessary and it came off as a little ageist to use an elderly body as shock value. It also didn't really add anything to the episode other than giving people something to talk about for the next week (clearly that's what they wanted since the episode was titled "The Red Woman", so I think it was poorly executed in that way. With that said, the scene was effective, and I like the concept. Even though it's not in the show,

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it makes me like the Mance glamour plot from the books more

. Also adds more mystery to her character. We know she sought out Stannis on her own and wasn't sent to him by the Red Priests, she had her own agenda and there clearly appears to be more to her than meets the eye. But, did she revert to her true self when she took off her neck ruby? Because she has been shown without it before.

- Winterfell: I'm not sure what to think about Ramsay's sad monologue about Myranda. Like I said earlier though I did like the conversation him and Roose had. Clearly Roose wants Ramsay to push Walda down a flight of stairs though.
- Sansa scenes were not bad, I found it silly that in the middle of being chased, standing wet and cold, they decide to do the whole "I herby join your service" thing. But at the same time, I got a lot of Catelyn vibes from Sansa accepting Brienne which was cool. I'm a little meh on Brienne getting her cake and eating it too; she got to abandon her post to save Sansa so she could kill Stannis, and then she still ends up getting to save Sansa. Is following revenge the right choice then?

- Kingslanding: There's nothing I can do about Jaime and Cersei being polar opposites of their book characters, so this scene was fine. Again, I liked what Cersei said. (kind of funny though that the only welcoming party the princess gets when she comes back to Kingslanding is Cersei and Frankenstein) I also can't remember why Margery is imprisoned.

- Dorne: This was easily the series low in terms of making sense. So, Jaime, Trystane, and Myrcella get on a boat, and within sight of shore Myrcella dies. You're telling me he didn't immediately turn around to go back to Dorne or question/imprison Trystane? Then to avenge Oberyn's death, Ellaria decides to murder his brother and nephew? How is this justice? Why do none of the guards care that Doran is dead? Meanwhile last we saw in season 5 Obara and Nym were both on shore with Ellaria, so how did they get onto Trystane's ship? Why did they wait until they were in Kingslanding to kill him? Why did Tryst wait in the boat while Jaime got off? Why are these two okay with killing their cousin? Why did they even introduce any of these characters if they were going to just kill them off without giving them any development at all? It's all very illogical.

Meeren/Essos: I find it funny that the Harpy burnt all their ships in Meeren, I thought they wanted the outsiders to leave, how are they to leave without ships? Tyrion and Varys conversation was fine. Jorah and Daario were fine as well, I'm happy the fact that they found the ring wasn't as ridiculous as I thought it would be.
- Dany's story this time was okay, I don't buy that no one thought she was Daenerys, or that she decided not to speak Dothraki until the last minute.


Overall the episode was fine. It had some good lines in there that I appreciated, it was better than I thought it would be! Like you guys said it was a lot of set up, and they didn't even cover Bran, the iron islands or Sam. I think the goal for them will be to converge story lines as soon as possible, because it is a lot of characters to cycle through. I wouldn't mind having more episodes with less characters to speed individual stories along.

I appreciate the effort put into this post! (As I hand my head in shame at mine...)

Lots of spoilers below. Serious, don't even glance below this line unless you've seen season 6 episode 1.

The Shoemaker wrote:I find it funny that they would leave Jon's body out in the open, in a place where they know dead people turn into White Walkers. But anyways, I didn't really understand Davos and co's motivation to protect Jon's body, nor did I understand Thorne and co's desire to get to Jon's body. If they wanted the body, why did they leave it out in the open after killing him?

I felt like the handful of scenes at the wall made all of this very clear, but I perhaps have the benefit of having seen the episode twice. They made a little sign that says "Traitor" on it. They were exposing his body in a shameful, disgraceful way, as an example (to intimidate loyalists) and a rallying cry for mutineers who agreed that Jon was on the wrong path. The loyalists initially took the body inside both to examine it and out of respect. After that, they weren't so much protecting it as they were protecting themselves (holing up, knowing the others are out for blood). Their message conveyed, Thorne and the others don't so much want the corpse (although I'm sure they want to burn it) as they want the loyalists to give themselves up.

The Shoemaker wrote:and there clearly appears to be more to her than meets the eye.

You don't say? This is what it added to the episode. There's more going on at the wall / with her character than we know. The fact that this immediately follows Davos's line about "you haven't seen her do what I've seen her do" is a clear setup.

The Shoemaker wrote:I'm not sure what to think about Ramsay's sad monologue about Myranda. Like I said earlier though I did like the conversation him and Roose had. Clearly Roose wants Ramsay to push Walda down a flight of stairs though.

The sad monologue taken in isolation wasn't the point of that scene. The point was the contrast between the sad monologue and his orders about how to dispose of the body. Haha, yeah, I don't know if Roose knows what kind of craziness he's inviting by pushing Ramsay around. Tough love. Their interplay is going to be something really interesting to watch as the show progresses.

The Shoemaker wrote:I found it silly that in the middle of being chased, standing wet and cold, they decide to do the whole "I herby join your service" thing. [...] I'm a little meh on Brienne getting her cake and eating it too; she got to abandon her post to save Sansa so she could kill Stannis, and then she still ends up getting to save Sansa. Is following revenge the right choice then?

No better time to do it, considering it only took them a minute, and they're noble/knight. It shows a nice contract between Brienne and the Hound, too. To be fair to Brienne, her post was a fairly shitty watching a window for days looking for a candle. It only seems like she screwed up because of the dramatic irony of the viewers seeing the candle lit as she left.

The Shoemaker wrote:There's nothing I can do about Jaime and Cersei being polar opposites of their book characters, so this scene was fine.

Nor is there anything you should do about it, since the book is a different work of art, and GRRM is quite happy with their depictions in the television show.

The Shoemaker wrote:I also can't remember why Margery is imprisoned.

She lied to protect Loras during his interrogation.

The Shoemaker wrote:This was easily the series low in terms of making sense. So, Jaime, Trystane, and Myrcella get on a boat, and within sight of shore Myrcella dies. You're telling me he didn't immediately turn around to go back to Dorne or question/imprison Trystane? Then to avenge Oberyn's death, Ellaria decides to murder his brother and nephew? How is this justice? Why do none of the guards care that Doran is dead? Meanwhile last we saw in season 5 Obara and Nym were both on shore with Ellaria, so how did they get onto Trystane's ship? Why did they wait until they were in Kingslanding to kill him? Why did Tryst wait in the boat while Jaime got off? Why are these two okay with killing their cousin? Why did they even introduce any of these characters if they were going to just kill them off without giving them any development at all? It's all very illogical.

Most of this made quite a bit of sense. I wonder if your resistance to anything and everything to do with Dorne just stems from your prior experience with a different related work?

• Myrcella dies within sight of shore, and you think he and Bronn should head back and two-man the entire kingdom? Jaime's speech to Cersei indicates his intentions pretty plainly. Return to their seat of power, where they have more than just two warriors, and plan a proper revenge.
• How do you know Trystane wasn't imprisoned? Maybe that's why they kept him on the ship.
• Ellaria's coup wasn't just about avenging Oberyn, or about justice; it was about unseating an ineffectual ruler—where she hopes to go with this remains to be seen. Her entire speech during this scene explains quite clearly (even bluntly) why the guards don't care—it even pans around and shows their faces!
• Not sure about the snakes suddenly being on the ship. I'd have to watch that scene in S5 again.
• Why not wait until King's Landing? Presumably if they killed him en route Jaime and the others would be pissed off. Now they get to take advantage of him being unattended and them already being at their intended destination rather than getting thrown overboard.
• It's common to stay on a ship in harbour unless you have something to do. Remember, Jaime's mission was secret, so there wasn't going to be royal fanfare when he returned. That includes not rolling out the red carpet for a foreign prince whose only tie to the Lannisters is now dead.
• They're OK with killing their cousin because they're trained killers, and they have an agenda, and they don't respect him. I don't know if you got the impression that they had a loving upbringing together, because I certainly didn't.
• Not every character has to be well-rounded and three-dimensional, especially in a show with a thousand of them. Some characters advance the narrative by building a small cachet (I'm a prince!) and then cashing out.

The Shoemaker wrote:Dany's story this time was okay, I don't buy that no one thought she was Daenerys, or that she decided not to speak Dothraki until the last minute.

Most of them didn't know who Dany was, so there's not really anything to buy or not buy there. I wouldn't expect every single Dothraki raider to know what she looks like or even that she exists. There are plenty of Khals, plenty of hordes, and they don't have the Internet. She's shown throughout the series that she doesn't like to reveal all her cards until she has to. She's even played the late-reveal language game before, when she acquired the Unsullied.

Rather than quoting you Kong and making things messy, I'll just take snippets of what you said:

The Wall: As I was writing that was the conclusion I was coming upon. That Jon's body was more so just there by happen stance rather than being the reason for the contempt between Davos and Thorne.

Winterfell: Yeah that's what I was trying to say, I wasn't sure what was the proper reaction to Ramsay being sentimental and then saying feed her to the dogs was. To me it just felt off, but I think they're trying to pose everything they do with Ramsay as off.

Sansa: All I`m saying is, it didn`t feel like the right time to me. Maybe escape first and then add her to her service? It's fine though, like I said I liked the moment and it's TV, only have so much time for things.

King's Landing: Exactly! Completely separate characters.

Dorne: I still stand by my points here that I don't think it all adds up. Like they could have at the very least shown Jaime staring back at Dorne in contempt as they sailed away to show that there was nothing he could do, or show him interogating Trystane, or mentioning to Cersei that they at least have Trystane on board. But they didn't show any of that, so for me, it just looks like they didn't think about any of it. The writers already said that Dorne was a last minute addition to season 5, and honestly it really shows. It just seems like such a waste of time and money on their part, resources that could have been put elsewhere. Obviously I can't say for sure until the entire story plays out, but it really doesn't look like they are putting a lot of work into these new characters.

Also I watched the season 5 finale right before the premiere, and the sand snakes were definitely on shore when the ship left. So I guess either they swam or got on another boat that no one noticed.

And unrelated to those points, yeah it is disappointing to see what they've done to Dorne. They cut out the main character and killed the entire Martell line

As for Dany, I just found it hard to believe that they would find this silver haired girl in the middle of the dothraki sea close by a dragon and not think that maybe this girl was Daenerys. There's no way the Dothraki that abandoned Daenerys didn't spread stories about her (or did they not abandon her in the show?) Anyways this was only a little critique of mine. Like I said last year, I just like to point out what I thought didn't work (and did), even if the little points aren't always that important to the scenes at hand.

Also, should I be marking my posts as spoilers? I would think no one would read a recap unless they've seen the episode already.

One thing I do hope they have time for is a little Stannis mourning from Davos and Mel. I think they only had time for a quick sad glance in the season 5 finale. I think maybe in the next episode or two they'll talk about it for a moment.

The Shoemaker wrote:One thing I do hope they have time for is a little Stannis mourning from Davos and Mel. I think they only had time for a quick sad glance in the season 5 finale. I think maybe in the next episode or two they'll talk about it for a moment.

They definitely have bigger problems on their hands right now, but I'm sure Stannis will be a topic of conversation at some point this season, especially if the Boltons use some old Baratheon parts as intimidation props in the upcoming conflict (burning/flayed bodies, etc.).