This Old Neon Forum

Welcome to the #BGE2020 Elimination Round of 64!

Each game is seeded based on its performance in the two opening rounds of pools. Every game in the Upper Bracket has defeated multiple other games in 1-on-1 polls to get to this point. These are still the best of the best.

Polls are updated weekly, typically on Monday. Check back throughout the week to make sure you don't miss a vote!

HOW TO VOTE

This is easy. You only get one vote per poll. The game with the most votes wins. In the event of a tie, the higher seed advances, so don't get complacent!

J oh had to vote for Sunshine here over my least favorite (but still excellent) Dragon Warrior game…

My goodness, Dragon Quest III is actually in the conversation for BGE, whereas Sunshine is in the conversation for worst Mario ever. Damn.

I am also in the "Sunshine is not among the best Mario games" camp. To cut the mustard in the top 64, you've got to be better than like top 6 games in your own series.

The thing is, a mediocre Mario game is still a good game. The bar there is just that high. I'm sure it'll eventually fall in this contest, though. I'm just not a Dragon Quest guy.

Mario Sunshine shouldn't be anywhere near the top 64.

Claytone wrote: ↑11 Dec 2023 17:40 My goodness, Dragon Quest III is actually in the conversation for BGE, whereas Sunshine is in the conversation for worst Mario ever. Damn.

Ignoring the 100's of terrible Mario spin-off games I don't think Sunshine is in conversation of worst Mario ever.

These titles are easily worse imo.

• Super Mario Bros. 2
• Super Mario Land
• Super Mario 3D Land
• New Super Mario Bros. 2
• New Super Mario Bros. U

In conversation for worse 3D mario game sure but not worst mario ever no way or worst mario mainline game there's just no way with a lot of the 3DS/Wii U garbage and spinoffs.

The fact it made the Top 64 kind of also proves it's not the worst.

SkyPikachu wrote: ↑12 Dec 2023 18:12 Ignoring the 100's of terrible Mario spin-off games I don't think Sunshine is in conversation of worst Mario ever.

These titles are easily worse imo.

• Super Mario Bros. 2
• Super Mario Land
• Super Mario 3D Land
• New Super Mario Bros. 2
• New Super Mario Bros. U

In conversation for worse 3D mario game sure but not worst mario ever no way or worst mario mainline game there's just no way with a lot of the 3DS/Wii U garbage and spinoffs.

Yeah, I think it's definitely the worst 3D Mario. And yes, to clarify, I was referring to the main platforming series, not spinoffs or anything like that. I would be indifferent, for example, if Mario Party never existed. Meanwhile, I like Sunshine, just considerably less than most of the other games in its series and way less than Dragon Quest III.

Having said that, I still think most if not all of the games you listed are better than Sunshine because they don't feature some of the really awful moments from Sunshine. They don't do anything particularly well (other than Super Mario Bros. 2, which I think is genuinely excellent), but they are at least breezy and enjoyable. I don't suppose it matters, but I say this as someone who has completed Sunshine 100%, by the way.

The fact it made the Top 64 kind of also proves it's not the worst.

My post and the one directly above yours should indicate that its arrival here is contentious and it perhaps had an easier path than some of the other Marios.

Also, I think probably Kong himself would say that BGE doesn't "prove" much of anything other than the popularity of certain video games among a rather small set of people with somewhat idiosyncratic tastes.* But I'd be interested in his take directly.

*To be clear: I think this is what makes it so compelling!

Some people apparently vote in the BGE for games they personally like, enjoy, have fun playing rather than games they think are the best. (Or, to be clearer, they think that them personally enjoying a game IS what makes it "best".)

This kind of idiosyncratic behaviour is indeed accounted for in the structure of the BGE. It can lead to interesting situations like bad games getting high ranks because people enjoy them.

It is OK to enjoy bad games! I enjoy a lot of bad games.

A thread like this, where a bad game that a lot of people enjoy is up against a good game that fewer people have played and enjoyed, is a splendid opportunity for these kinds of discussions about what makes a game "best", what gives a game merit over another, etc. And, as we're seeing here, it begins to crack open some nuance about context and how a bad Mario game can still be a good game, what the standards for judging Mario games against Mario games are (what the standards for judging Mario games against genre-defining RPGs are), etc.

Kong Wen wrote: ↑12 Dec 2023 21:00 Some people apparently vote in the BGE for games they personally like, enjoy, have fun playing rather than games they think are the best. (Or, to be clearer, they think that them personally enjoying a game IS what makes it "best".)

Best is subjective though there's no best thing ever.

Fortnite could be someone's GOAT game because they have a blast playing it and the fact it's free and has "unlimited" content really fits perfectly into the "best" category for them. Someone else may hate multiplayer games and prefer a single player experience like Starfield because that's the content they want. Others may hate the style of new games and prefer ALttP or Pong for their simplicity and the fact they're games that are really high in quality even if they don't have a lot of replay value.

I know you value how games have shaped the history of gaming. Eg. Doom and Halo 1 had a massive impact of the FPS genre. SM64 on the 3d genre. However I see something like Banjo Kazooie as a better game than SM64 because it plays better and controls better and feels like it has more interesting content. Neither of us are wrong though and nobody will ever agree what is best.

I think there's a lot of games where it's pretty obvious what the best game is like I doubt anyone here is going to say Balan Wonderworld is better than Mario Sunshine. Funnily enough we are literally discussing which 3d mario game is the worst in which the worst game is still of high quality compared to the average video game.

Also impact on someone's life is a huge factor too. Nostalgia hits hard and I know Super Mario World, Megaman X, NBA Jam and DKC1-3 were some of my first games ever and all 6 games I hold in high regards because of that. Where as if I'd not played them as a child I'd possible think NBA Jam especially was probably a very so-so game and I might view the DKC series less as well as not view MMX and SMW as the best title in their series.

Another example would be World of Warcarft (Dragonflight) which I've been playing with my Partner recently. It's probably not as good as I think it is but the fact I'm making friends with it and it's something my partner and I get a lot of joy from doing together does impact my view on how good of a game it is.

I think this is what makes the polls so interesting.